Read the full transcript of John Lydon on Joney’s Jukebox. It is very good. or….
John: ‘Allo Steve, good to see ya, one Sex Pistol to another!
Steve: Excellent, excellent. How you doing?
John: All righty.
Steve: Did you go on the ol’…it’s on tonight, right?
John: Yeah, I think they’re airing it tonght. Yeah, Jimmy Kimmel last night.
Steve: Yeah.
John: Under the disguise of it was my fiftieth birthday, but you know that we set it up to go and have a bitch about the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame and quite right an all – self-appointed sods. You know I don’t mind getting something for nothing, but I ain’t gonna pay for the privilege. You know what it is, Steve, it’s like they’re asking us to pay them to tell us we’re famous. But we’re not. We’re infamous.
Steve: We’re already famous
John: Yeah, done that, been there.
Steve: Ain’t we already famous? Do we need them to tell us we’re famous?
John: It would be nice if they paid us for the privilege.
Steve: Or got medical. Or something.
John: I don’t mind being paid to be told I’m famous, but I ain’t paying them. So there you go. Good on ya.
Steve: But it’s more to it than just the seating, innit? I mean they had your lyrics in the bleedin’…not even your lyrics, right?
John: Yeah. No, the bigger truth is, right, and you know this – I’m just waffling about the money, I couldn’t give a toss. But, I mean I’ve had problems with this Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame for a long time and in particular the museum. You remember years ago when I was running Rotten TV for VH1…
Steve: Right.
John: Well, we were going to shoot an episode there at the museum and they wouldn’t give me permission to film and in particular, not to film this so-called alleged Sex Pistols exhibit they had which, by all accounts was somewhere under a staircase, down the corner at the end of a basement. But, in it was a set of lyrics that they claimed was the original like, uh things, that you know, like I wrote them all out at one go and autographed them. Phoney by anyone’s stretch of the imagination and I told ’em so. But they told me that their sources were “irrefutable”. So, in other words, my word isn’t good enough, but my ‘words’ are.
Steve: Right, right…
John: Right. That’s, that’s wrong. Alright, so a museum that’s based on what, you know, selling you a load of old kack and phoney baloney you can’t be supporting. If they’re doing stuff like that with our career years back, why we gonna hand ourselves on a platter to them now? They were never interested in the truth in the first place and now all’s their gonna get IS the truth.
Steve: Well, they can, they can put your new lyrics up now, in the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame
John: (Different accent) Oh, yesss. What ones would those be?
Steve: The you know, The Statement.
John: Oh, well, no…that’s ALL of us, particularly the bad spelling of “congradulations”!
Steve: Oh yes, I wrote THAT! Yes that was MY idea!
(both laugh)
John: It needed to be said. We thought it out, we worked it out and we knew what would be done, you know?
Steve: But you’re the lyricist mate, you always have been.
John: Well, I’m the mouthpiece ain’t I?
Steve: But you’ve always writ all the lyrics. Remember “Lazy Sod”?
John: Oh, yeah…
Steve: I wrote that in me bedroom – you completely changed the lyrics around.
John: (laughing) You wanted it to be this sad song. (Steve starts laughing) It was sort of a sad song, at the end.
Steve: It was sad before you got hold of it.
John: Well God, if you’re the bloke up there doing the howling and hollering you’ve got to be believing what you’re doing…
Steve: Yeah.
John: And it’s always been like that. When we did versions of songs, I mean we always skipped ’em around a bit. We made “No Fun” our own thing, completely.
Steve: Yeah.
John: Completely.
Steve: Do you ever listen to “Never Mind The Bollocks”?
John: I do. I do every now and again; it’s still as solid as ever. I dunno how we did it, Steve? Dunno. But just you know, I think because we had no conceits.
Steve: Right.
John: You know and we were confused as you should be. It’s the best thing, is to just go in and get on with it.
Steve: Yeah…
John: We didn’t have any time to sit around and you know, wax lyrical or, or ponder great orchestra pieces and so it just flowed natural. Had to – one-take vocals!
Steve: I know, I know…
John: My god, twenty-one guitar takes!
Steve: Ayy, not that many! (John laughs) It wasn’t even me, it was Chris Spedding.
John: Ah, well, no. He just loved the sound you were getting’ and he just wanted to rack you up into a wall of things, which is very important. I think first year out of the trough, you know, and Mister Jones here, you know you were being acknowledged as something as bit of a special sound. Me, I was one for the loony cage.
Steve: No, not at all, mate.
John: I did all right. You remember the first six months of rehearsin’, I mean I couldn’t, I didn’t know what a tune was, and you were going, “Look this is the where you start…’twang, twang’…” (John as if saying it aloud to himself) Ohh, is that right? (Steve laughs) On the first gig when I heard myself, I think it was…
Steve: St. Martin’s College, is it…
John: I actually heard what I sounded like and I realized what agony I was putting you lot through.
Steve: No, that was, that was the uh, Marquee.
John: Marquee, supportin’ Eddie and The Hot Rods, yeah.
Steve: Yeah.
John: Yeah.
Steve: That was the first time you had monitors. I think we only did like…
John: Well I kicked them in, remember? Couldn’t stand the sound of my own voice.
Steve: Yeah.
John: God…(Steve laughs) oh, we’re off to a good start here.
Steve: It’s good going down memory lane, it’s excellent. What you uh…
John: What people don’t know…you know, I mean they assume we were this Malcolm game and yes, Malcolm had his fair part in there, and we were up to any old shenanigans if it suited us, but we worked really all right. Even though we never really spoke about it but when you’re sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, you ain’t got much to say anyway.
Steve: Right.
John: Not about like, the inner intellectual depths and workings of a band. I never thought we’d get anywhere, did you?
Steve: Mmm…
John: Well you knew we’d get to St. Martin’s Lane which was twenty-five yards across the…
Steve: Round the corner from the Marquee….
John: … treet from where we were rehearsin’.
Steve: Oh yeah, Denmark Street (both laugh) “You’re gonna see the world!”.
Steve: Do you ever ah, do you ever run into McLaren?
John: Nah.
Steve: You never run into him?
John: Nah.
Steve: You’ve never crossed paths at any time?
John: Years and years ago I met him, er…Bernie Rhodes, the old Clash manager.
Steve: Whatever happened to him?
John: Faded off the planet.
Steve: Just completely out?
John: Yeah. I think what happened is they all started trying to claim credit for the same things and they were all hoppin’ over each other. But that was the only time I’d seen Malcolm in a long time and ah, we decided to do a runner and leave Bernie with the bill. Typical Malcolm. I’m one for that meself every now and again.
Steve: What, what do you think you would do if you did run into him? Would you talk to him?
John: Just say hello, I’ve got no animosity against Malcolm, never.
Steve: That’s good.
John: I mean, you know, I like to use my wicked tongue and so does he but I don’t think there’s anything really evil in it.
Steve: You know he’s waffling on right now in Selfridges as we speak.
John: Yeah. Yeah.
Steve: It’s either tomorrow or right now, they’re doing this thirty-year thing at Selfridges…
John: Yeah…Steve, this is from a bloke who’s saying like uh, “the shame about me is I can’t live without my Sex Pistols legacy.”.…
Steve: And he can’t stop…
John: …and he, and he can’t stop talking…
Steve: He can’t let it go, yeah. Unbelievable.
John: (laughing) y’know? Hello?
Steve: At least we’re getting some money out of it.
John: At least we wrote the songs.
Steve: He ain’t getting nothing out of it, I don’t think.
John: Well it’s a bit sad, innit?
Steve: He’s just trying to get some acknowledgement.
John: Well, he’s invented this new current thing of um, “anti-management”, this is how he’s explaining himself now, right. Y’know, that he guarantees a catastrophe…
Steve: Oh, that’s hard to do.
John: Very clever, though, innit? Typical ‘im. Can I have another cup of coffee before I get the runs?
Steve: Did you have a nice…bathroom?
John: I did, I squeaked a mouse.
Steve: Excellent (general laughter) Can we get some coffee? Is there a wiper out there? Someone who can get Mr. Lydon…
John: (lowered voice with US. accent) Uh, in the porno industry I think they’re known as “buffers”.
Steve: Fluffers.
John: Fluffers, buffers and…(Steve laughs) You’re doin’ all right here, Steve, it’s a really good setup studio.
Steve: Look at that…look at that!
John: Bingo!
Steve: You ask and you shall receive. A bucketful of coffee. Excellent.
John: A cardboard box of coffee, that is novel.
Steve: It’s all the latest craze, you know. Box of coffee.
John: Oh Starbucks (Belches) Sorry. Pardon my French.
Steve: That wasn’t me.
John: (tries to squeeze out another belch) So, where do we stand in the world? We’ve done a lot, we have (?) some of the best songs ever I think. We’ve broke every boundary, every barrier put in front of us. We’ve done it with no help from the record industry, not ever. And now they’re what, claiming something off us, don’t like that.
Steve: Don’t you have an album out in England?
John: Yeah. Can’t get it released here.
Steve: Yeah.
John: Right. We can’t get Never Mind The Bollocks re-released here.
Steve: It’s bizarre, though innit, the record industry right now? It ain’t even…it’s barely a record industry.
John: It’s like distribution, innit, its like warehouses, you know? They just want to send a wagonload off of stuff here and there. No responsibility.
Steve: (belches) I don’t think most people even know who, say like some company just bought so-and-so and they probably got nothing to do with music…
John: Yeah
Steve: …and they have no idea what they’re selling. It’s just a whole different game.
John: Well it should be like…you buy a Jaguar in America and it’s a Ford engine.
Steve: Right, right.
John: That’s, that’s what you’re getting now. You’re getting the logo, but not the content.
Steve: Yeah, and it’s all…
John: (Different accent) Unless it’s a Sex Pistol.
Steve: Yeahhh. Hold on, have you heard this bloke? (Steve plays a recording of Bullseye game show host Jim Bowen from his Bullseye In Your Pocket voice keychain gadget) “You’ve won nothing, but here’s your BFH, your Bus Fare Home.” You know that bloke?
John: Nope.
Steve: Bullseye, he’s like…anyway, never mind.
John: (laughs) No, I won’t. (both laugh)
Steve: Um, what was I going to say? Like if you don’t, if you don’t even ah, if you don’t get a record in Walmart, you ain’t got a hope in hell of selling any records.
John: Yeah yeah yeah, the way it charts. But we were always hit with nonsense and cons like that. You know, if we don’t chart WH Smith in the first week like, we’ll never be in the charts, no matter how many you sell after. Well, it never mattered it still doesn’t. I mean, I’ve run PiL, I’ve run my solo stuff, been through the Pistols and it’s still the same way. I still don’t have chart positions, I still don’t have radio play. I’m doing all right.
Steve: Yeah yeah yeah…
John: You don’t need those things, you know? It’s hokey little silly sods like Green Day that come in and think by sucking up to that system that you’re somehow, “beating the system.” You’re not. You’ve become part of it.
Steve: Yeah yeah yeah yeah…
John: You know, they’re as inducted as anybody could ever hope to be.
Steve: I was thinking the other day that…
John: Sticky tape on a duck’s ass, that’s Green Day.
Steve: They probably wouldn’t even have…they would have been laughed at if they would have been around in ’77…
John: They wouldn’t have survived it, Steve. We had to earn the wings, you know?
Steve: …you know what I mean?
John: All right? The ‘ammerin’s and ‘idin’s (hammerings and hidings) were a bit severe, weren’t they?
Steve: Yeah. Yeah, they wouldn’t have, I was thinking that the other day they…
John: Nah, toy town
Steve: …wouldn’t have even…they would have been laughed at.
John: Toy town . We made it easy for ’em to come in and nick kind of, our things off us – which is all right…
Steve: Yeah…
John: …it’s nice, but they’re silly, rich fat kids and so, you know…
Steve: But they shouldn’t go around saying that we weren’t the real deal.
John: Yeah.
Steve: I read it in an interview.
John: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s saucy. That’s really saucy.
Steve: I Dunno if they’re taking the mick or what.
John: Don’t say it. Just tell the truth.
Steve: Exactly.
John: Don’t need to fib.
Steve: Exactly.
John: All right? And so, I’ve had problems with them about that and a few other things. You know, we never liked the term, “punk” originally either, did we? It was this Caroline Coon brought it up in a Melody Maker article, “King of Punk”. King? Me? No. You know, here I am, putting down the monarchy. (laughs) Irony, or what? And there I was, “punk”, Mister Big’s toy-boy and now, we have Green Day are happily running to be Mr. Big’s toy-boy.
Steve: It’s amazing.
John: It was hard times we went through.
Steve: It’s like footballers…back in the Seventies, didn’t make a dinar. You know they got like, two hundred quid a week if they were lucky, like, top footballers. And now they make stupid money.
John: Yeah.
Steve: You know what I mean?
John: Yeah an’ I know. It’s more like softball now, watching it. Except for Arsenal.
Steve: I know…DON’T start…
John: Arsenal…
(Chants)
I wash me ‘ands
I wash me face
I wash me Arse an’-all! (both laugh)
Steve: That was a good, I’ll tell you what…that was a great game, as much as I hate it to say so, that was a brilliant game.
John: No, good football is good football and we’re talkin’ ‘English’ here.
Steve: Yeah that was a great game. That was a great game of footy. Who’ve you got, you’ve got a tough one, though…you’ve got Juventas next.
John: Oh, what? Real Madrid was simple and easy and lightweight?
Steve: That’s what I mean is it’s gonna get…they’re pretty ah, Real Madrid have been a bit you know, dodgy, but I think Juventas are a harder team.
John: A multi-billion organization that’s behind ’em. There ain’t nothing dodgy about a team that’s got Zidane in it, all right? Or Ronaldo. Heyyy, that’s some kind of dodgy! Up against a bunch of eighteen-year-old Arsenal kids, you know? Come on! Dodgy?
Steve: It’s gonna be weird innit, playing old uh, Viera?
John: Eh, well, sod him. We done all right without him, you know? (Steve laughs) Super stars, I think when they get too big, get them out of your team, you don’t need them, you know, when they start trying to make out it’s all about them, ’cause it ain’t. Well, sod football. Anything else we can waffle on about? Ah, you’ve got the “Best Of Bread”!
Steve: Yes!
John: Whoa, let’s have a look! Can I borrow your glasses. I’m blind as a bat, Steve.
Steve: Ere, look at the bottom bit…I was gonna play track one.
John: How about Neilson schmeilson, I’ve been trying to find that lately. (Steve laughs)
Both: (singing in falsetto) I can’t liiiive, if living is without yooou! (more laughing)
Steve: Do ya wanna hear a bit of Bread?
J: Yeah, why not?
Steve: C’mon, then. Ere, put that one on. Slap number one on.
John: We’ve always been a bit proud about being in it for the bread.
Steve: Yes. (Different accent) You know, it’s not too late to go to the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame on Monday, you know?
John: Oh, super…yes…
Steve: We could still make it.
John: Well, funnily enough, our press agents going.
Steve: I have a friend with a private plane, we could fly out there (they laugh)…he got a corporate plane! Take it away, Mr. Shovel.
Plays rather appropriately Bread “Make it with you.” Followed by Count Five “Psychotic reaction.” Lastly The Who “The kids are alright.”
Extract to Bread, Count Five and the Who was Transcribed by Floratina……
Steve: You’re listenin’ to Jonesy’s jukebox on Indie 103.1
John: If you’re unfortunate enough.
Steve: If you’re listenin’ right now you are listenin’ to the voice of John Lydon.
John: Hello, the kids are alright.
Steve: Do you like that song?
John: Not really (laughs).
Steve: That’s why I played it for you. (laughs) But you did like Bread.
John: Yeah, no you were sayin; just there about Cliff Richards comin’ on and stuff… People presume, you know, we should be “enemies” to people that have completely different points of view. No, its never been like that with me or you . If someone completely believes in what they do, they’re not my enemy, they’re my friend. Might be totally alien to my way of life but I respect them for being able to present a case and believe it. I don’t like fake, I don’t like middle washiness and…so good on yer Cliff Richards. You got ‘im on?
Steve: You know what, he didn’t know one bleedin’ Pistols song though. We were talkin’ about the Queen.
John: Yet, he was very good at tryin’ to ban us there for a few years with his Festival of Light stuff yet he don’t know one of our songs. Yeah we love Cliff.
Steve: What did he do? (Steve is recalling)
John: There was a time I almost pushed him off a cliff, I was that angry with him but now I really like him. He’s alright.
Steve: He was talking about being inducted into the Knighthood and he said, “oh yeah the queen and I said, “oh yeah we wrote a song called God save the Queen,” he’s like, “you did…what’s it?
John: (Laughter)
Steve: I mean how could you not know that? You know what I mean?
John: Yeah right.
Steve: He lives in a bubble but I love him to death I think he’s great. I really do,
John: There’s summin alright about certain people, I dunno what it is but they’re…
Steve: He’s true to himself.
John: Then that be it, the words don’t sum it up but people who believe in what they do and can justify it properly are always gonna be alright with me, always.
Steve: He was comin’ out the…get this – he’s like what is he – gotta be close to seventy. He was out here, he was gonna do a showcase in New York, at seventy! He’s doing a showcase.
John: Then he is a boy in a bubble ain’t he?
Steve: Yeah, he’s trying to make it and he’s desperately trying to make it in America. I hope he does get some success.
John: Well he’s been at it seventy years, I mean you know he’s bound to get a break sometime. Let’s hope its not a leg.
Steve: (Laughter) So what else you been up to?
John: Lets hope he don’t break his colostomy bag either!
Steve: Ahhhh, poor old Cliff. I heard that about him, is that true?
John: I don’t know if it’s true or not but it’s a great bad rumour, innit? You know.
Steve: I was having a look…
John: Yeah? You know
Steve: (Laughter).
John: “Oh damn, “I’ve burst my shopping bag”…sploosh.
Steve : (Laughing) Oh God, oh (different accent) it’s disgoostin’
Is that bug on the Discovery Channel, is that comin’ out here or was that out?
John: No and yeah , oh you talking about the “Megabugs” thing I did yeah? Ten part series for Discovery. They won’t release it here.
Steve: Why?
John: No idea. No idea.
Steve: Is it entertaining? It must be.
John: It’s bang on the money, right. It’s you know, from a man who’s bragged about loving industrial carparks to be stuck in a bleedin’ jungle, it’s alright.
Steve: Yeah yeah.
John: It’s just me being real but you know I like, I study things, I read, I like to know how things work Steve. I don’t like killing anything and so you know, an ant crawling across the table fascinates me and so it just played in lovely to a ten part series. It’s ended up now in England on the universities, on the curriculums. And if you are talking about nominations oddly enough it was nominated and put up against Attenborough…(1).
Steve: Oh yeah.
John: Lucky I came second, cos it would be another award I wouldn’t be able to go and collect.
Steve: (Laughs.)
John: Cos I feel kinda, I don’t like awards see I feel ropey about them but I do like doing work that’s…
Steve: Acknowledged.
John: …off the beaten track, yeah acknowledged but left alone and not absorbed into the shitstem. It was mainly scorpions, the lot, things that I would normally have been like spooked about but the thing is you see these things in the wild and they look different, they behave different . You know.
Steve: When I was young I was never interested in…
John: It’s like being stoned without the joint.
Steve: Right.
John: Right, that’s how nature is with me.
Steve: When I was young – I don’t know about you – I was never interested in looking at the sky or anything but when you get older, you get.
John: Yeah, ‘ow could ya Steve, you know another grey day in London, nothing to notice.
Steve: But I didn’t care,I didn’t notice things when yer young like that, like yer life.
John: No.
Steve: You don’t notice it but the older I get the…
John: I tell ya, I did notice spots, you know, pimples.
Steve: Zits?
John: Yeah oh zits, (US. accent)
Steve: Yellerheads (US. accent).
John: Things like that you know things that made you worry and think people wouldn’t like ya for it.
Steve: Right, yeah. Do you remember my mate Jim Macken, he had the worst skin under the planet. I didn’t realise at the time, he must have been tortured.
John: Yeah murder yeah, yeah must have been torture. Things we worry about you know the little vanities but teenage years are the worst for it.
Steve: You don’t know what’s going on, basically yeah.
John: Yeah and we didn’t even ‘ave time to like properly cultivate a few yeller heads cos we’re in the middle of that madness. It’s alright you know when yer being discussed in Parliament under the Traitors Act, a pimple on the end of yer nose takes second place.
Steve: (Laughter).
John: Does, honest.
Steve: (Laughter)
John: (Different accent) Going to do a documentary about it…starring, “Cliff Richard’s colostomy bag.”
Steve: Ha ha .
John: I bet that’s got enough pimples.
Steve: Funny stuff, what do you think of old Bush do you think he’s er, not Bush the other bloke.
John: Ah, Bush well there’s a great Reggae song, “Every hour I a’ s dig . (unclear song title?) a bush,” yeah right. Bush? He’s like Quayle in he? It’s still the same ole game with Republicans, they still can’t spell potato. They’re very good at shooting each other too these chaps, how you can mistake…you know.
Steve: It’s all the latest craze.
John: You know oh, “a very well known banking millionaire,” for a quail, with a shotgun?
Steve: (Laughter).
John: Maybe he was looking for Dan Quayle, we’re back to can’t spell potato.
Steve: Do you think he’s in bed with ole matey boy in England?
John: Blair?
Steve: Yeah.
John: Somebody has to be.
Steve. Yeah.
John: Tony Blair well that man is somebody’s poodle, right I mean he is the original soup tureen isn’t it? You know the goofy ministry of silly walks bloke. Right, he’s not bright but he is conceited, right and he’s a bit like. Tony Blair’s a bit like a lawyer above a bookie office, you know at the end of some like, low rent street, right cos he’s not the full shilling. I don’t trust him and I don’t like extreme right, I don’t like extreme left. I want common sense in all of it. You know I’ve always been anti politicians, the whole lot of ’em. All of ’em. Lying is their game, that’s why I like Margaret Thatcher, she didn’t lie there, for a long long time. She was just right out, plain nasty and I thought, “that’s alright -we can live with that.”
Steve: Wonder what she’s up to?
John: Well she u-turned didn’t she, so. She got in bed with Reagan, you know?
Steve: Right, that’s it. See it always seems to go ‘and in ‘and America and England.
John: Should do. We’re similar cultures, you know a bit o’ unity. I seen a…I feel a little bit more loyal towards America than I do say backin’ up some French silly scallywag scheme, you know? Be honest.
Steve: I love it ‘ere in America.
John: I know I do, I’m ‘ere ain’t I?
Steve: I love it.
John: People ‘ere are alright. People here are, they’re more friendly with each other and less suspicious and less hateful.
Steve: Not hateful if you do well, ya know, they don’t wanna cut yer down.
John: That’s it.
Steve : They don’t mind ‘avin a, you can always ‘ave a second chance in America. You know what I mean?
John: Yeah well, the fact is you can ‘ave a first chance too and that’s a big enough thing, you don’t get that in England, you just don’t …I tell you that – right, particularly London – the way we grew up, to me, it was like, “crabs in a barrel.” When one tries to get out over the top, the rest’ll pull it down and that’s ‘ow it is there. Still is, it just won’t change.
Steve: That’s a great analogy. (US. West Coast accent). I really enjoyed that.
John: Oh, thank you. He’s analysing me right now.
Steve: (Laughter)
John: He’s looking for those spots.
Steve: Ah, funny stuff.
John: I see you got Gene Pitney.
Steve: Yes, what, do you know, what song would you like me to…
John: Anythin’ really. Oh look it’s nice big writing!
Steve: Right, “A town without pity?”
John: (Laughs).
Steve: We gotta go, we gotta visit the Duke…
John: Yep.
Steve: …we’ll be right back, we’re here with John Lydon, you’re here with Jonesy’s Jukebox..”fanks for listenin.”
Commercial break…
Steve: You’re listenin’ to Jonesy’s Jukebox on Indie 103.1 with my guest John Lydon. Hello John
John: (Cockney wide boy accent) ‘Ello John.
Steve: ‘ow are ya?
John: I’m alright John.
Steve: (Different accent) Jolly good.
John: Nice to ‘ave us on Steve, by the way and ‘ave a good little chat like this in a nice casual human being way like what people don’t seem to think we are.
Steve: Yes, I know, I know.
John: You know. We’re supposed to what, sling mud at each other and you know, throw naughty words all over the gaff and pose and you know. “‘allo we’re Sex Pistols, we aint faaaake.”
Steve: And we don’t care…
John: So there. Can I go home now?
Steve: In a minute, only another twenty minutes. What are you gonna do this afternoon, anythin’? Have a kip?
John: Oh no… I’m going back to see Arsenal on the tv. They’re gonna show edited highlights…(laughter)
Steve. Oh no! (laughter).
John: (Laughter)
Steve: Oh, no!
John: Oh ‘old on look we picked out this Gene Pitney record, and you reminded me of when we played Tulsa at the Pistols years ago.
Steve: “24 hours from Tulsa”, that’s the song.
John: Right? The Christian fanatics that turned up.
Steve: Yeah, they was bizarre there. Is that a Christian town, Shovel? Tulsa? Is that like a..
Shovel: It is is a dry state.
Steve: A dry state?
John: Yeah, I mean for these so-called alleged Christians and there we are, we’re just a bunch of soppy kids I suppose right? I mean these sods ‘ad guns right, they we’re absolutely blatant in their intent to kill us at all costs if they got the chance and the posters…One of them was some quote out of Leviticus I suppose, oh here it: “When the world turns to rottenness..” blah, blah, blah, you know. An’ they’re goin’ “crk crk ” with rifles and stuff and you know and the police weren’t particularly interested in our, in our benefit.
Steve: No. (Change to US. Accent) “We were there just to rock man.”
John: Yeah…(general laughter) and we’re real glad we rocked their boat cos I tell ya if you can make those kind of like self righteous sods that angry – by not doing much at all – you’re off to a good start in life!
Steve: It’s so hypocritical though all that Christian stuff, don’t you think?
John: Yep, as always.
Steve: It’s so hypocritical…
John: I have a simple point in life that if you are gonna believe in a religion fanatically then you shouldn’t have a responsible job like a politician because if you’re prepared to believe in utter nonsense, you can not make sense out of the rest of the world
Steve: Mmmm.
John: Right… ha ha ha.
Steve: They was…
John: Except if you’re Cliff Richards
Steve: (US. Accent) Colostomy….Castastrophe, (sic) colostomy. What about if er…What about the other lot though in eh…Caerphilly where they was outside?
Steve: The same?
John: The same kinda thing but without the guns, you see I suppose that’s the difference between the two cultures isn’t it?
Steve: That was it.
John: “Guns don’t kill people…”huh…(derisive noise) yeah right.
Steve: But they were, they’re…so misinformed though both places.
John: Well, it’s the NEED to justify whatever the causes they have and they’ll hog on to anything if they’re given the chance to use that, to present their own position.
Steve: Yeah.
John: So in other words we’ve always been everybody’s like favourite whipping post, ain’t we? It’s alright, I like a good whipping. But it can go too far and it can get taken too serious. By the time like craziness like that goes “Southern American” way, there’s loaded guns pointin’ at ya and then it aint so funny. But, these fanatics would do that, it’s like the “Meat is murder” brigade er you know, the animal activists. They don’t mind slashing a human being, you know, for their cause or…
Steve: Abortions.
John: …or blowing up an abortion clinic – because they love life so much they’ll kill anyone to prove it.
Steve: Yeah.
John: Bit of a wrong ‘un there, innit?
Steve: No, absolutely! It doesn’t make any sense at all.
John: You ain’t got no cause on this earth, if you need to kill someone – you ain’t got no cause. There’s nothin’ worth livin’ for – as soon as you kill some other creature just for that, it’s over. Yer finished. It’s always been like that.
Steve: Do you think, what do you think you’re views on…?
John: It’s alright to eat beef though, cos cows are stupid.
Steve: (Different accent) Yes…it’s good to ‘ave a bit of mad cow now and again.
John: (Laughs).
Steve: But what do you think , do you think abortions should be er…up to you… the woman?
John: I’ve always thought it’s up to the woman, you know though the “Bodies” song, Imean now that’s from all sides of the border, right – but leave it open to the listener.
Steve. Yeah, yeah.
John: Right? I’m not pro-abortion or anti, I’m pro the choice of the woman.
Steve: Actually, that should be their theme song, shouldn’t it?
John: It should be.
Steve: “Bodies.”
John: It should be because it comes at it from a real common-sense point of view. You can’t just willy-nilly go out and have an abortion you gotta know that it is a, “screaming bloody mess,” you’re leavin’ on the table. A potential future human being. But, that’s a lot better than raisin’ a child that’s unwanted, right and I ain’t seen much good come out of orphanages, and foster homes – I aint – I’ve seen wounded people…
Steve: Right.
John: … right, they’re literally the walking dead and it’s not right.
Steve. Mmm I agree.
John: You know, there’s… you know, ya got this now, right-wing nonsense about banning abortion cos, it’s (different accent) “unchristian” and immoral. Well I tell ya, you’re gonna have millions locked up and institutionalised from an early age. There’s ya future criminals and they will be psychopathic. Because to grow up unloved is the worst thing in the world. You know this when you watch laboratory rats – how there’s, if there’s too many in a cage they start chewin’ each other. This is what happens, monkeys in zoos, zoos are wrong too. It’s the same thing. They’re emotionally starved.
Steve: They shouldn’t be locked up, ya mean?
John: Nothin’ should be like that, alright So don’t bring in a child into this world if you know you can’t look after it.
Steve: And no zoo.
John: Yeah and no zoos.
Steve: No zoos, if you wanna see monkeys go to Africa..
John: Yes.
Steve. …right?
John: I did…I seen a lot of them…
Steve: Have ya?
John …and they liked me.
Steve: You should do a documentary on monkeys.
John: I did!
Steve: You did?
John: I did!
Steve: Excellent.
John: I did. Oh yes I went to Rwanda Steve.
Steve: (Laughter).
John: I did!
Steve: Is that a dodgy place there?
John: Yes it bloody well is, it’s a dangerous gaff. But ah… Rwanda particularly on the border with Uganda but there was a lull in the fightin’ between the Hutsi and the Tutsi right and so in we went and…For a laugh one evening I got kids from different villages to do a sing-song wrapped around “Anarchy” and “God Save the Gorilla” and no trouble..
Steve: (Laughter).
John: …and no trouble
Steve: (Laughs) “God save the Gorilla.”
John: Yes.
Steve: They’re probably…
John: You know what I mean…for me it seems silly but its true. You go to Africa and you understand the principle of the Garden of Eden that the kids, the people that like…the real nice…
Steve: They’re probably real nice kids.
John: …they’re just fantastic people, they’re natural. Right and it’s whitey system that’s got in there and corrupted them. Right it breaks ya heart, I tell ya.
Steve: I know, I know, I know
John: Breaks ya heart Steve. Every penny we ‘ad we like spent on like buyin’ biros for these poor little sods, cos they were begging for a pen to learn, you know, to write. There’s no pens, they’re not given any, they’re kept stupid, it’s not right.
Steve: “The rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer.”
John: (Different accent) “Yesssss, “fascist, chauvinist, Government fools.”
Steve: There’s (laughs)
John: Isn’t that a song?
Steve. (Laughter). There’s no, it’s not getting’ any better either all that situation.
John: No it ain’t is it? We thought this stuff we were writin’ years ago would like – you know – be like looked upon as silly eventually, cos you know the world ‘d be improved. It’s more wicked than ever Steve.
Steve: Mmm.
John: The “us them.”
Steve: Yes. I know.
John: You know . It is.
Steve: (pause, then serious voice) What are we gonna do John?
John: Well I just carry on doin’ what I’m doin’ and tell it like it is an if you know, “the powers that be” don’t like to listen to it, tough, I ain’t stoppin’ anytime soon. You’ll have to blow my fuckin’ ‘ead off, cos that’s the only way to stop me.
Steve: Yeah.
John: I can’t stand injustice, I can’t live with it, I don’t like it. We know what it is, we grew up with it.
Steve: (Fart sound from where Steve is sitting)
John: We’re the scum of the earth we are. We ain’t so bad – and you’re farting!
Steve: I ain’t, I’m just moving, it’s the chair.
John: (Laughter)
Steve: It’s the ship rockin’
John: (Laughter) Squeakin’ out anuvver mouse.
Steve: Lets play a bit of, “24 hours from Tulsa.”
John: (In a bass deep US. radio type accent) Yes, all you religious fanatics, get yer guns primed and loaded.
Steve: (US. Accent) This is picked from Johnny’s selection. Take it away Mr. Shovel
Plays ..Gene Pitney “24 hours from Tulsa.”
Steve: (US. Accent) You’re listening to Jonesy’s Jukebox on Indie one oh three point one with my guest John Lydon. Hi John.
John: (Similar accent) Hi.
Steve: (Continues with same accent) Fantastic to have yuh here
John: I tell ya (both laughing) I tell ya it’s funny bein’ interviewed by someone I know so well! I dunno how to cope with this. It’s a laugh though innit?
Steve: Excellent. One thing I always wanted to watch and I never got to watch it, cos I don’t ‘ave a bleedin’ converter but your thing you did in England…er, “Get me out of ‘ere.” (1).
John: Oh right, the celebrity nonsense.
Steve: How did that come about?
John: For a couple o’ years they kept askin’ would I do it and I wouldn’t and out came the er…a lull, I ‘ad bugger all else to do and I thought – “well two weeks in the jungle that might be a laugh” – and I could like scoop the money into some charities that I supported. And so that’s what I did. I shifted a huge amount of money into quite a few different funds.
Steve: Was it hard work, bein’ on that?
John: Hard yeah, because you’re under the camera twenty four hours a day, so you think you can’t be your self but… I just was my self and that was it, right and stopped you know the need to try and put on act or anything, I’ve always been this way so I just carry on that way. Ended up being (laughs) – “one of Britain’s most loved people!” – which was not on my agenda.
Steve: That’s amazin’ I mean…
John: You know, I thought, you know just get you know, “oh look he’s ‘orrible as usual.” I know it annoyed a lot of people like they you know, presumin’ that I was doin’ this cos I wanted to be famous and it, I’m not like that, I never ‘ave been. I did it for a laugh you know and when it came time to you know, “who’d win” and all that, who’s gonna stay the longest, I walked – because I don’t do anything for competition or to score one above anybody else. But I raised a serious amount o’ good charity money. I wouldn’t even mention that Steve and I’ve kept that side of my life quiet for a long, long time but for the fact that I had to deal with these OUTRAGEOUS British newspaper allegations – That I was doin’ it all for the money and I was some kind of greedy celebrity hungry git. And that’s unfortunately the way the world is, you have to answer these accusations, or, that you will ever be like smeared with them.
Steve: Yeah yeah yeah.
John: And so there it is. I suppose for both of us being a Sex Pistol right from the beginnin’ is, we ‘ave to constantly fight off allegations and accusations. Like we’ve done summin wrong, when frankly it’s the rest of the world, not us, we got it right. We got it right, you know, the rest of you are still in two left shoes.
Steve: What, I know somethin’ I’ve always wanted to ask you, why ‘ave you never wanted to write any more Pistol songs?
John: I felt – and I still do – that it would be wrong for my heart and soul. I’ve loved that period and when it broke up and really hurt my heart big time, right, really hurt me and I don’t wanna go back.
Steve: Ok. I see.
John: Right, I really loved it but it was time to go elsewhere and once I started in PIL. Rocket to another level. Not competition just a different part of my world. I miss the Pistols, I miss the lot of ya.
Steve: Yeah. Well we ‘ad fun the last time we toured, I ‘ad a good time that little tour we did across America?
John: Yeah but not always, cos that’s life innit?
Steve: Of course. It is.
John: And anyone who thinks it’s all a, (different accent) “jolly good wheeze,” It’s not…
Steve: No, it’s ‘ard work.
John: …being in a band – when you mean what you do – …
Steve: It’s hard work.
John: …is hard work. You gotta watch yourself almost twenty four hours a day, it’s the same as being on that celebrity thing.
Steve: Yeah. I enjoyed the last tour though, better than the, that big one we did. To me that was really…
John: That was too much, Steve…
Steve: Yeah.
John: …it was around the world and it felt like nine months of like..
Steve: That was a year, it was actually a year with the breaks.
John: I like, when I came ‘ome from that, yeah nearly a year that’s right… I came back, I couldn’t get adjusted, I couldn’t settle down.
Steve: I felt I come back from Mars or somethin’
John: Yeah, it felt really out of place, took a long, long time…
Steve: Mmm.
John: …to get back into a normal way of life.
Steve: Do you think most bands have the same nonsense that goes on?
John: I can see the need for drugs for some people big time because you need to cover up that pain and that gap and pressure…
Steve: Yeah.
John: …but the more drugs, the worse the pressure..it’s…
Steve: And the monotony as well, it gets monotonous, don’t it?
John: What is it, it’s twelve hours of panic to do an hour and a half show.
Steve: Right.
John: You know? And you know me, I’m vomitin’ all day long with fear, I can’t ‘elp it I get really worried about it.
Steve: Yeah.
John: Stage fright, whatever it is but…
Steve: But that’s what gives you your big, when you come on stage your big persona!
John: My big. (Different accent) Yessss, well I’ve lost the stomach lately! (Both laugh)
Steve: I tell ya one of the best gigs I thought we ever did was…
John: I worry Steve, I worry. I want to do the best I can with whatever I do but unfortunately (starts laughing) I tend to annoy everybody around me doing it. (Both laugh). I mean well…but I don’t get no tea.
Steve: I thought Finsbury Park was one of the most best shows for me.
John: Great, mad crowd, huh?
Steve: We didn’t play great cos we’d just gotten goin’but I thought as far as, “comin’ home, gig?” It was brilliant.
John: Yeah. For me it’s about the crowds and how they behave and accordingly. See Glasgow is the place I’ve loved playing all my life and that is a volatile, violent crowd. Very few bands can go there and come out of that place smiling.
Steve: Right.
John: We never ‘ad a squeak out of them.
Steve: No they were great.
John: Bang on after, bang on us, to support us and very mad places around the world, the more loonier the gaffs actually, the more they liked us. The only trouble we really ‘ave ever had is in squeaky little places like, “Italy.” Ya know? (Both laugh). Where these a (Romance accent) alleged Christians they like to hide out in the crowd and throw de bottles sneakily from ze side.
Steve: Ah that was the worst gig we did in that, what was it that festival?
John: Yeah, that open festival.
Steve: In Holland weren’t it? Roskilde.
John: Ughhhh.
Steve: Roskilde festival, that was a nightmare. We went on Shovel and er, big cider bottles. There was a little crowd…
John: Yeah.
Steve: right …and back a little bit, it was all stand…it was brilliant when the show started there was all these flags and fire, fires goin’ you know it was unbelievable like a hundred thousand punters and there was this one little mob who just kept slingin’ these bottles…
John: Yeah.
Steve: And John kept sayin’ “look stop slingin’ ’em or we’re gonna go off.” Played another song – kept slingin’ ’em.
John: Yeah.
Steve: So we left after like bleedin’ four songs I think, three or four songs. That was the worst gig ever.
John: Yeah it couldn’t… no it’s like this. No that don’t make us wankers it’s plain and simple to me. I ain’t gonna get blinded by some coward gettin’ away with that.
Steve: Yeah.
John: Alright. And if crowds don’t learn to police themselves then please don’t ask us to be your victims, alright. If you’re gonna pay money to go and try and blind someone, you’re the kind of person who should be put away for life.
Steve: Yeah.
John: Right, because your intent is wrong and it ain’t nothin’ like ours. Right. They belong on a different planet those kind of sneaky coward pigs. It’s never face to face is it? It’s always hiding in a crowd.
Steve: Yeah, yeah.
John: The very people actually we hate the most. Shame ain…well in Italy for instance do you remember those travellers who came? Now some of these were little kids you know and they like, proper punk travellers and these Italians that (Different accent) “Italian football hooligans” were trying to throw beer bottles to hurt these little kids. That kind of cowardice, you know. (Different accent) Italian? You’re Mafia! You are not much.
Steve: (Different accent) Italians, we hate you – you are nothing!
John: Soprano? Huhhhh….
Steve: You’re nobody. I can’t wait for that to start though, the Sopranos that’s startin’ soon.
John: Good series.
Steve: I love it. It’s startin’ soon I think, I think it’s like next week or somethin’. The best thing on HBO. (Sound of coffee being slurped) Excrement!
John: Yesssss! Right I need to go an ‘ave another poo Steve, and it’s two!
Steve: Well I think we’re knockin’ it on the ‘ead. What are we doin’? Visitin’ the Duke?
John: What’s the Duke, what’s that mean?
Steve: The Duke of Kent, we’re payin’ the rent. We’re goin’ to commercials. It’s a long story. (Both laugh).
John: Oh ho, for God’s sake! (continues to cackle)
Steve: We’re gonna er..
John: Oh ho look, I forgot, look, no underpants!
Steve: Inside stockin’s. (laughs) Fishnets!
John: Do you know what they are? They’re Samsonite travel pants which you get free with British Airways when you flew First Class. (laughs) so I ‘ad to ‘ave a pair.
Steve: Oh no (laughs)
John: And I mean look at that, I mean that’s keepie glue innit? Innit!
Steve: Fishnets in trousers!
John: Oh Malcolm would kill for these.
Steve: Tony Blair must have come up with them! Let’s go and visit the Duke, we’re here with John Lydon and we’ll be right back after these messages to wrap it up, fanks for listenin’
John: Yesss Pe…(cut off by commercial break).
Steve: (US. Accent) You’ve been listenin’ to Jonesy’s Jukebox on Indie one oh three point one, John Lydon is not back from the bathroom yet. Hopefully he can make it back to say his goodbyes. Oh wait, oh…is he comin’? (General studio background murmour) Oh he comes! Here he comes!
John: Steve wants me, hello Steve!
Steve: He’s back! (US. Accent) Hi Johnny!
John: Hi baby! (both laugh).
Steve: Thank you, we’re gonna wrap it up now John.
John: Oh great, shall we fondle each other’s Sex Pistol?
Steve: I would love to, it would be my pleasure!
John: Well, did that pay the rent then?
Steve: Yes.
John: Yes hah. I must say you’ve got very nice toilets here, it’s been a privilege.
Steve: Yes, thanks for comin’ by mate!
John: Yes there’s no limit of sheets, of rolls, of toilet rolls.
Steve: I was always wonderin’when I was gonna see you comin’ through the door. I been doin’ it two years now, I always thought like, when’s he gonna come through that door?
John: Yeah…yeah I think it wouldn’t be somethin’ like, well we know my potential don’t we?
Steve: Oh yes.
John: You know.
Steve: But it was very good and…
John: I can be good as gold, or as bad as the devil.
Steve: He was very respectful and I appreciate it mate.
John: Well absolutely mate.
Steve: An’ we’re gonna leave now and we’re gonna go out with God Save the Queen.
John: Yessss.
Steve: Bye bye everybody.
John: Which Queen are we saving this week?
Steve: Ummm, I don’t know…
John: Well a big nod and a wink to Cliff Richards anyway
Steve: And the bag, bye bye.
End of interview. Plays, Sex Pistols, “God Save the Queen.”
Extract from Bread, Count five and the Who transcribed by Chriswasanon.
Notes.
(1) David Attenborough the popular BBC television natualist.
(2) ITV1’s extremely popular reality game show: “I’m a celebrity get me out of here.” Filmed in a part of the Australian jungle. John to the delight of the viewers proved a very capable and popular contestant both to those watching at home and the other celebrity competitors. He went on to cause further media outrage however when he broke the final swear word taboo and called a peak live British television viewing public, “a bunch of cunts,” They had chose not to vote with their telephones that John should leave the jungle and the show. The “outburst” did not affect his obvious popularity, although the producers did put in place a time lag. to ensure that this “sort of thing” would not happen again. John Lydon was the favourite to be crowned, “King of the jungle,” until he left – having decided not to continue.
